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John
Pilger
an interview by David Barsamian
The Progressive magazine, November 2002
Corporate journalism in the United States
preaches "objectivity" and scorns those who take the side of the dispossessed
and disenfranchised. But the mainstream media in Britain makes a few allowances.
John Pilger, the Australian-born, London-based journalist and filmmaker,
is one.
"I grew up in Sydney in a very political
household," Pilger told me, "where we were all for the underdog." His father
was a Wobbly, a member of the Industrial Workers of the World. Like Orwell,
whom he admires, Pilger has a direct style. For example, he uses the term
"imperialism" and does not hesitate to attach it to the adjective "American."
He was a featured speaker at the mass
peace rally in London on September 28. He told the crowd, estimated at
between 150,000 and 350,000, "Today a taboo has been broken. We are the
moderates. Bush and Blair are the extremists. The danger for all of us
is not in Baghdad but in Washington." And he applauded the protesters.
"Democracy," he told them, "is not one obsessed man using the power of
kings to attack another country in our name. Democracy is not siding with
Ariel Sharon, a war criminal, in order to crush Palestinians. Democracy
is this great event today representing the majority of the people of Great
Britain."
For his reporting, Pilger has twice won
the highest award in British journalism. His latest book is The New Rulers
of the World (Verso, 2002). His political films include Paying the Price:
Killing the Children of Iraq, Death of a Nation: East Timor, The New Rulers
of the World, and Palestine Is Still the Issue. These documentaries are
shown all over Britain, Canada, Australia, and much of the rest of the
world but are rarely seen in the United States. PBS, the Public Broadcasting
Service, which has seemingly unlimited space to air specials on animals,
can't seem to find a spot for Pilger's work.
"The censorship is such on television
in the U.S. that films like mine don't stand a chance," he told me, and
he illustrated this point with the following anecdote. Some years ago,
PBS expressed interest in one of his films on Cambodia, but it was concerned
about the content. In something out of Orwell's Ministry of Truth, the
network appointed what it called a "journalistic adjudicator" to decide
whether the film was worthy of airing. The adjudicator adjudicated. The
film did not air. PBS also rejected another film on Cambodia that he did.
But WNET in New York picked it up-the only station in the country to do
so. On the basis of that one showing, Pilger was awarded an Emmy.
I called him at his home in London the
day before he spoke at the huge peace rally.
Q: Is the war on terrorism a new version
of the white man's burden?
John Pilger: Classic nineteenth century
European imperialists believed they were literally on a mission. I don't
believe that the imperialists these days have that same sense of public
service. They are simply pirates. Yes, there are fundamentalists, Christian
fundamentalists, who appear to be in charge of the White House at the moment,
but they are very different from the Christian gentlemen who ran the British
Empire and believed they were doing good works around the world. These
days it's about naked power.
Q: Why do you say that?
Pilger: The attack on Iraq has been long
planned. There just hasn't been an excuse for it. Since George H.W. Bush
didn't unseat Saddam in 1991, there's been a longing among the extreme
right in the United States to finish the job. The war on terrorism has
given them that opportunity. Even though the logic is convoluted and fraudulent,
it appears they are going to go ahead and finish the job.
Q: Why is Tony Blair such an enthusiastic
supporter of U.S. policy?
Pilger: We have an extreme rightwing government
in this country, although it's called the Labour government. That's confused
a lot of people, but it's confusing them less and less. The British Labour
Party has always had a very strong "Atlanticist component," with an obsequiousness
to American policies, and Blair represents this wing. He's clearly obsessed
with Iraq. He has to be because the overwhelming majority of the people
of Britain oppose a military action. I've never known a situation like
it. To give you one example, The Daily Mirror polled its readers and 90
percent were opposed to an attack on Iraq. Overall, opinion polls in this
country are running at about 70 percent against the war. Blair is at odds
with the country.
Q: In your new book, you talk about the
group around Bush that is essentially forming war policy, people like Vice
President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary
of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. You single out Richard Perle, who was Assistant
Secretary of Defense in Reagan's Pentagon. You highlighted his comment
"This is total war."
Pilger: I interviewed Perle when he was
buzzing around the Reagan Administration in the 1980s, and I was struck
by how truly fanatical this man was. He was then voicing the views of total
war. All of Bush's extremism comes from the Reagan years. That's why people
like Perle, Wolfowitz, and other refugees from that period have found favor
again. I singled out Perle in the book because I thought he rather eloquently
described the policies of the Bush regime. September 11 has given these
people, this clique, an opportunity from heaven. They never really believed
they would have the legitimacy to do what they are doing. They don't, of
course, have legitimacy because most of the world is opposed to what they
are doing. But they believe it has given them if not a legitimacy then
a constituency in the United States.
Q: They are also part of an Administration
that came to power under shady circumstances.
Pilger: I don't regard them as an elected
group. It's quite clear that Gore won most of the votes. I think the accurate
description for them is a military plutocracy. Having lived and worked
in the United States, I must add that I don't want to make too much of
the distinction between the Bush regime and its predecessors. I don't see
a great deal of difference. Clinton kept funding Star Wars. He took the
biggest military budget to Congress in history. He routinely bombed Iraq,
and he kept the barbaric sanctions in place. He's really played his part.
The Bush gang has taken it just a little further.
Q: At least on the level of rhetoric,
it seems that the top officials of the Bush Administration are much more
bellicose. They've taken their gloves off. They speak in extreme language:
"You're either with us or you're with the terrorists."
Pilger: We're grateful to them because
they've made it very clear to other people just how dangerous they are.
Before, Clinton persuaded some people that he was really a civilized character
and his Administration had the best interests of humanity at heart. These
days we don't have to put up with that nonsense. It's very clear that the
Bush Administration is out of control. It contains some truly dangerous
people. :,
Q: How do you assess U.S. policy toward
Israel?
Pilger: Israel is the American watchdog
in the Middle East, and that's why the Palestinians remain victims of one
of the longest military occupations. They don't have oil. If they were
the Saudis, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. But they have
the power of being able to upset the imperial order in the Middle East.
Certainly, until there is justice for the Palestinians, there will never
be any kind of stability in the Middle East. I'm absolutely convinced of
that. Israel is the representative of the United States in that part of
the world. Its policies are so integrated with American policies that they
use the same language. If you read Sharon's statements and Bush's statements,
they're virtually identical.
Q: You write for the Mirror, the British
tabloid with a circulation of two million plus. How did you get that job?
Pilger: I wrote for the Mirror for twenty
years. I joined it back in the 1 960s when I arrived from Australia. You
don't really have anything like the Mirror-as it was, and as it is trying
to be again-in the United States. The Mirror is a left-leaning tabloid.
It's really a traditional supporter of the Labour Party in this country.
I suppose its politics are center-left. During the time I was there, it
was very adventurous politically. It reported many parts of the world from
the point of view of victims of wars. I reported Vietnam for many years
for the Mirror. In those days, it played a central role in the political
life of this country. It then fell into a long, rather terrible period,
trying to copy its Murdoch rival, The Sun, and just became a trashy tabloid.
Since September 11, the Mirror has reached
back to its roots, and decided, it seems, to be something of its old self
again. I received a call asking if I would write for it again, which I've
done. It's a pleasure to be able to do that. It's become an important antidote
to a media that is, most of it, supportive of the establishment, some of
it quite rabidly rightwing. The Mirror is breaking ranks, and that's good
news.
Q: In one of your articles, you called
the United States "the world's leading rogue state." This incurred the
wrath of The Washington Times, which is owned by the Moonies. They called
your paper "a shrill tabloid read by soccer hooligans." Your fellow Australian
Rupert Murdoch, owner of The New York Post called the Mirror a "terrorist-loving
London tabloid."
Pilger: There's one correction I want
to make there. Murdoch is not a fellow Australian. He's an American.
Q: But he was born in Australia.
Pilger: No, he's an American. He gave
up his Australian citizenship in order to buy television stations in the
United States, which is symptomatic of the way Murdoch operates. Everything
is for sale, including his birthright. The Mirror is not read by soccer
hooligans. It's read by ordinary people of this country. That comment is
simply patronizing. But to be criticized by the Moonies and Murdoch in
one breath is really just a fine moment for me.
Q: In George Orwell's essay "Politics
and the English Language," he describes the centrality of language in framing
and informing debate. He was particularly critical of the use of euphemisms
and the passive voice, so today we have "collateral damage," "free trade,"
and "level playing fields," and such constructions as "villages were bombed,"
and "Afghan civilians were killed." You compare the rhetoric surrounding
the war on terrorism to the kind of language Orwell criticized.
Pilger: Orwell is almost our litmus test.
Some of his satirical writing looks like reality these days. When you have
someone like Cheney who talks about "endless war" or war that might last
fifty years, he could be Big Brother. You have Bush incessantly going on
about the evil ones. Who are these evil ones? In 1984, the evil one was
called Goldstein. Orwell was writing a grim parody. But these people running
the United States mean what they say. If I were a teacher, I would recommend
that all my students very hurriedly read most of Orwell's books, especially
1984 and Animal Farm, because then they'd begin to understand the world
we live in.
Q: And the use of passive voice?
Pilger: Using the passive voice is always
very helpful. Mind you, a lot of that propaganda English emanates from
here. The British establishment has always used the passive voice. It's
been a weapon of discourse so those who committed terrible acts in the
old empire could not be identified. Or, today, the British establishment
uses "the royal we," as in, "We think this." You hear a lot of that these
days. It erroneously suggests that those who are making the decisions to
bomb countries, to devastate economies, to take part in acts of international
piracy involve all of us.
Q: What's wrong with journalism today?
Pilger: Many journalists now are no more
than channelers and echoers of what Orwell called the official truth. They
simply cipher and transmit lies. It really grieves me that so many of my
fellow journalists can be so manipulated that they become really what the
French describe as functionaires, functionaries, not journalists.
Many journalists become very defensive
when you suggest to them that they are anything but impartial and objective.
The problem with those words "impartiality" and "objectivity" is that they
have lost their dictionary meaning. They've been taken over. "Impartiality"
and "objectivity" now mean the establishment point of view. Whenever a
journalist says to me, "Oh, you don't understand, I'm impartial, I'm objective,"
I know what he's saying. I can decode it immediately. It means he channels
the official truth. Almost always. That protestation means he speaks for
a consensual view of the establishment. This is internalized. Journalists
don't sit down and think, "I'm now going to speak for the establishment."
Of course not. But they internalize a whole set of assumptions, and one
of the most potent assumptions is that the world should be seen in terms
of its usefulness to the West, not humanity. This leads journalists to
make a distinction between people who matter and people who don't matter.
The people who died in the Twin Towers in that terrible crime mattered.
The people who were bombed to death in dusty villages in Afghanistan didn't
matter, even though it now seems that their numbers were greater.)The people
who will die in Iraq don't matter. Iraq has been successfully demonized
as if everybody who lives there is Saddam Hussein. In the build-up to this
attack on Iraq, journalists have almost universally excluded the prospect
of civilian deaths, the numbers of people who would die, because those
people don't matter.
It's only when journalists understand
the role they play in this propaganda, It's only when they realize they
can't be both independent, honest journalists and agents of power, that
things will begin to change.
David Barsamian, director of Alternative
Radio in Boulder, Colorado,
is the author of "The Decline and Fall
of Public Broadcasting" (South End Press). |
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